(From the Archives) The King Chronicles

This discussion occurred over the weeks between June 20 and July 10, encompassing a certain fateful Decision. From time to time, we'll post our past email conversations as a way to center us historically, to be reminded of how our addled prognostications and failed assumptions brought us to this place...

Gudmundsson Challah

Some report says it'll be Bosh and James signing with Bulls. Damn, that'd be a formidable team. Another report, though, says Bosh has made up his mind to go to Miami. Either way, I think we'll find out how badly James really wants to win titles with this signing. In Chicago, aside from Rose and Noah and playoff experience, they also now have room to sign another max player. If it's not Bosh, it could be Joe Johnson, Amare, Boozer, who really cares? Any one of those plus that core would be four times the talent he's ever had, plus playoff seasoning. If he's worried about legacies, about being famous, about making more money, about partying in the big apple, he'll sign elsewhere. But no other team can now come even close to offering him such ready-made championship possibilities. Two max contracts plus Rose and Noah. In fact, if Lebron doesn't sign there, he'll be allowing them to be an intense rival for the rest of his career, with Joe Johnson and one of Boozer/Bosh/Amare, or some other combo therein.

Miami, meanwhile, adding Bosh would suddenly be very good. It's funny how everyone's obsessed with where Lebron will go, and who would be his best running mate, and forgetting about Wade. You think that drives him crazy? You could ask the same question about him, when has he ever had a talent like Bosh/Boozer/Amare around? And they'll have room to sign another big ticket player, though not quite max. If he can win a title with a past-prime Shaq, they will be very good. I'd think a free agent might be tempted to play with Wade instead, as anyone who plays with Lebron will always be the guy that got him HIS title. In Miami, there's probably a better chance of a Celtics-like situation, of several players joining forces to get that title.

Gabe

yeah, as a devoted wade fan (i wear his shoes for chrissake!) i will be really excited when he is paired with any of those PFs (hoping for bosh) and has a team that can actually do something other than wait for him to score 40 (while grabbing 9 rebounds and 4 blocks and 5 steals and hoping someone makes some shots so he has 8 assists too). and as i like to point out, unlike lebron (who has also played with more talent this year than wade's 06 team), wade has...um.... WON already. ....but lebron/rose/noah/goodPF/piece of styrofoam could probably beat anything.

Gudmundsson Challah

whatever happens, there should be some fun series between those two in the future...

Here was Wade's starting lineup in '06:

Shaq

Jason Williams

Antoine Walker (retired 2 years later)

Udonis Haslem

Main two guys off bench:

Gary Payton (retired following year)

Alonzo Mourning (retired 2 years later)

Granted, at 20 ppg and 8 rebounds, Shaq was in better form...(12 and 7 with James). But would you take the above group over Antawn, Varejao, Parker, Hickson, Williams? Hard to say, but it's certainly close...shows how important having just one really functional and powerful partner on your team can trump overall talent. And Shaq certainly was that for Wade...

LDJ5000

perhaps more importantly, look at the opponents. dallas collapso-mavs

in 06, and miami almost lost to them, compared to the experienced

former champion celtics with 4-5 future HOFers, and one of the best

defenses of all time. sometimes it comes down to luck, you really need

a break or two, especially if you're trying to break through

established titans. when jordan finally won isiah was hobbling and

kareem was retired, and i think worthy was injured too.

Gudmundsson Challah

Well, that's not entirely fair...along the way they beat the Pistons, who had lost the previous finals in 7 games to the Spurs and crushed the Kobe/Shaq Lakers in 5 games the season before. They were 64-18 that season, best in the league. They had a pretty good defense too, if memory serves.

Eau Shur

That Chicago line-up with James looks like we all felt when Boston got Allen & KG. Like, oh shit. You knew they'd be contenders right away. The thing that makes the Chicago deal potent to me is the two guys, Rose & Noah, are so young. I think Noah is a little more ...uh, mobile, than Ilgauskas or Shaq?

And Rose, wow, irregardless of where James goes, I think Rose is absolutely great. One of my favorite players. Then there's Deng & Hakim Warrick & Taj Gibson. Really athletic fierce players. Pargo is OK too and Brad Miller, no laughs please, is perfect off the bench, he's a full seven feet tall, 261, great passer.

Obviously there'll be trades where the overlaps with the incoming stars exist, but, you have to say, they're

capable of the championship. And it'd be wild. Chicago's young guys already gave us one of the best playoff series in recent memory.

LDJ5000

wait a minute, there's another intriguing possibility still in the mix

that people seem to be forgetting: lebron, eddy curry, chris duhon, al

harrington, and gallinari. h-o-l-y c-r-a-p. an unstoppable dynamo of

... guys.

Eau Shur

Yeh, & what about this?!?!

Monte Ellis,, Anthony Randolph, Andris Biedrins, CJ Watson & James?

But really, Curry, Udoh, Azubuike, Turiaf, & James?? I'm talkin title. Of some remaindered book in Paducah.

Curry, Wade, Amar'e, James & Bosh?

It seems like a breach of everything wholly that James, Wade & Bosh would have a meet in Miami. Not only making a superteam outside hem-hem conventional avenues...but the unseemly conspiracy to land in a tropical pardise for nouveau millionaires. Reminds me of Mafia history. But who could blame Wade for pulling that trump card? Hey guys want to hang at my beach house and talk it over ? Uh, how does that line up next to winter in Toronto, Chicago, Cleveland and NYC ?

LDJ5000

maybe the whole class of 03 should be on the same team: lebron, wade,

bosh, carmelo and, yes, darko in the middle.

in the constant flux of my own intuition about where lebron goes, the

latest feeling i have is actually brooklyn, as simmons calls them ,

the nyets. they have lopez, maybe they swing in bosh too, or chris

paul? he'd be in new york basically, but with potentially a better set

of players and an agressive and wealthy owner, a new home in brooklyn,

a chance for new legacy-making. the more i think about chicago, the

jordan talk would never stop, and how many rings would he have to win

to be considered a success there? he'll always be the second best bull

unless he wins 7(!). legacy does matter a lot to all these big stars.

sounds like dallas is also a real possibility. a few other western

teams might be able to do a sign and trade as well. houston?

Gudmundsson Challah

I really hope they don't all end up in Miami. I think it's likely there'd be chemistry problems, it'd be a huge distraction in the NBA, and would take the competitive fun out of several potential rivalries for years to come. We'd also never know just how good Lebron is. You put him on a team with a guy like Wade and it'll always be Wade who had the ring first. It'll create a huge mush out of legacies and all that. Give Wade and Lebron each a good couple complimentary players and let them battle it out with each other and Dwight for the future of the Eastern Conference. Way more fun, better for the NBA, and probably ultimately more successful. I stick by my original point, no matter how much Jordan shadow is hanging over and the less-friendly owner, Lebron will get the most titles and make the most historical ripples in Chicago. Did Shaq decide to play elsewhere because of the specter of Kareem and Magic? Were KG and Ray Allen deterred by Larry Bird? You go win where winning happens, and that's where it'll happen. This has also got to be part of his thinking: What if I don't sign in Chicago? Without anyone substantial alongside Rose/Noah on that team they took Boston to Seven games two years ago, the same team that knocked us out this year. And they're going to sign two max contract guys. Do I really want to face a maturing Rose/Noah tandem with newly added Boozer/Amare/Bosh/Joe Johnson, etc, to get my titles?

One thing I'll add, he doesn't HAVE to want to win titles. That's only one reason to go to a place. He may hate Chicago winters...he may actually be great friends with Wade and can't wait to play with him. He has allergies in New York. Makes more money in one place or the other...it's perfectly fine for him to choose based on his own desires. I certainly do in my own work.

LDJ5000

the three 03ers thing is not going to happen, and i agree that it

would be bad for basketball. lebron is not going to play with wade, no

way no how, even if he says nice things about it. megastars join up

late in their careers, not early. those two guys are the #1 and #2

assets in the entire basketball universe, playing the 2 and the 3.

it's just insane, and unprecedented, and probably not wise. and

definitely bad for the league to have all the megastars jump on one or

two teams.

you might be right about chicago, but the thing is, unlike the lakers

or celtics, who have long traditions of winning with various legends

and characters, chicago's story is completely jordan, and only jordan.

there is a statue of jordan in front of the stadium! lebron would have

to pass it on his way in every day.

i think simmons has it right:

best chance of winning soon: chicago

loyalty: cleveland

best chance at legend: new york

the new york scenario: he doesn't win as much, or as soon at least.

they could add more next year with curry going away. but if he wins

one title in the next couple years new york will love him forever. if

he wins two he is the greatest bball legend in new york history.

because he will also win 6-10 mvp awards in a knick uniform. 3 titles?

fuhgettaboutit. they'll make a statue of him outside MSG.

he wins 3 in chicago and they'll love him, but the jordan statue

stays, and he doesn't get one.

of course the other possible scenario: goes to knicks and never wins a

title, becomes Ewing 2.0...

i'm rooting for the nyets, we need a new tradition, a new franchise.

LDJ5000 (next day)

looks like wade won the bosh tug of war between him and lebron.

now lebron is no longer pressured to go to chicago just to stop the

possibility of wade and someone else in chicago. is the most important

thing for these guys pairing up with a great big? If so then maybe

he's going to knicks w/amare. it probably looks less scary now, since

wade and bosh would also be surrounded with a bunch of nothing. knicks

probably have a little more than miami, and curry can be traded

mid-season. orlando must be praying for him to go to ny, cuz both

miami and ny would probably need at least a year of building before

contending, a nice window for orlando tp try again against the lakers

in 2011.

thank god we have a full hour tomorrow to watch him decide! kinda

sickening actually. a whole hour! he's giving brett favre ideas...

Gudmundsson Challah

It seems at this point, he'll have to sign with the Cavs...someone on Sports Illustrated made the point that it would be incredibly insulting to his home state and create bad feelings everywhere if he had an hour long special to announce that he was leaving the Cavs. An incredible show of ego and rubbing salt in wounds that would probably tarnish his image for a good while. On the other hand, if he decides to stay, it could be a great hour of showing how much he loves Ohio and what he's gonna do to change the losing tradition and all that. Hard to believe Lebron would choose the "So long suckas!!" mode...

On a personal level, I think it's pretty cool that he's gonna stay. I know I've said he should go to the Bulls if he really wants lots of titles, but you can't fault a guy for choosing loyalty and potential eternal legacy building in Ohio if he wins even one title. I just don't see how they're gonna get him the player he needs to partner with in the near future, but that doesn't mean 2 years down the road they don't make some blockbuster and bring in a Dwight Howard or someone so they can each collect a title or two in the last few years of their prime.

Guy I feel a little sorry for is Amare...He's in for a rough road in NY and now no Nash to set him up. Like a guy who invited everyone to a party at his house and no-one showed up.

Gudmundsson Challah (Next day)

Oh lord...all players I like, and yet now I will be constitutionally bound to root against all of them:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5363055

I'm sure they'll have lots of fun and kudos for sacrificing big bucks, but...urgh. I seriously hope they never win a single one.

It's interesting that while all of this is going on, Kevin Durant, who topped them all for the scoring title this year, quietly signed a 5 year extension for less than the max. To a small market team. In a boring town. And then showed up at the summer league to root on his young teammates.

Go Thunder!

Eau Shur

Yeah about Durant, although he seemed to be making a big deal out of how he's not such a big deal.

But there's no simple way for those star-level guys, their personalities are on hyper display.

Other quiet signings matter a lot too, like Boozer. I think that is a perfect combo for the Bulls. Seems the most complementary of the moves so far. He's an absolute machine when healthy. Rose will love it. And now they can add one guy, maybe a 2 guard marksman...?

I thought Hakim Warrick was excellent when he played against the Warriors last year, much more skilled than his low-profile role on that team. Suns may come out of this OK.

And the Warriors too, very cool that they signed Elphetxz Carom out of Carpathia for 30 million a year. How do they find these guys?

Gabe

to divert the convo a bit: lee to warriors is final now. thoughts?

personally i really like it. while the move certainly won't make us playoff contenders or anything, we get a proven rebounder who can actually score reliably too. he is used to playing in a similar fast paced system and is an instant massive upgrade over anyone we had in the frontcourt. yes we may curse the move in 3 years if AR ever lives up to his potential, but i am really tired of waiting for warriors prospects to somehow mature perfectly in a totally fucked and chaotic franchise. ever wonder why so many warriors bloom once they leave? could part of the reason be the warriors coaching and front office? perhaps. anywho, i like lee a lot, and i think he'll be a great addition. they still need a lot, but it's a good step.

as for the Chimera (my fave of FD's names for the Miami Three (ps why the hell did anyone on ESPN.com think the Miami Thrice was a good one??)).... i don't know. i have been a heat fan (well... wade fan) for a while now, so i am excited for sure. i can't help remembering Beijing where these three guys proved they could all coexist on the same court and hope it will all work out. i feel a little bad for wade in the legacy standpoint - but to be fair, he did already lead a team to a ring. he doesn't really have a lot more to prove. however, of course, it remains to be seen what the rest of the heat's roster will look like (they do actually need to fill out a roster surprisingly), and that will be the deciding factor. bosh can't guard dwight howard, without shooters they have three great scorers who do their most potent damage within 15 feet. if they pick up a couple defensive bigs and shooters.. then it'll be hard to see them losing. the next few weeks will say a lot. i will say though, if i wasn't really personally attached to wade and therefore the heat, i would probably be disgusted. can't help but be a little giddy though, after 129019080809 years of seemingly rooting against the basketball gods.

LDJ5000

Well I guess it's a new era, the big stars are friends and just want

to have fun together, unlike magic and isiah, Jordan and Barkley, who

were friends but wanted to destroy each other.

Trying to get my head around what it means basketball wise. I think

the key is to look at how lebron played when mo was out for a few

weeks and he basically played point guard. He averaged over ten

assists and ran the team like Nash but better. That must be the plan

in Miami. He has the ball in his hands on every possession but wade

still gets 25-30pts per game. Lebron averages 22p 12a 8rb,

occasionally still puts up 55pts. Bosh 17p 13r. Lebron is leader and

Wade is the scorer? They need one shooter and one garbage big shot

blocker and the rest doesn't matter, whoever you get will be 20x

better by proximity.

...

but I still don't quite get it. What happens at the end of games?

Lebron has been crushing teams in the 4th for seven years now. Wade is

going to sit by and watch? The other way around? Sharing that role

equally doesn't make sense, you need a 4th qtr hierarchy.

I have to admit as much as I'm against the idea of superstars ganging

up on everybody else, I'm very intrigued to see how it plays out. how

can you not be? It gives the hoops world something else to talk about

other than whether Kobe is better than Magic.

Eau Shur

The other station, NBA-TV was much better in commentary, with Webber, Snow, Reggie miler, Damon JOnes, Barkely. The consnensus was:

LeBron has tarnished his legacy. If he'd stayed in Cleveland and gone with teh new coach, a few tweaks, they'd probably have taken one or two titles, and his stature would be very high. Reggie particularly flet it as a guy who played for a small-market city and knows just how hard the midwest wil take this,and conversely how intensely loyal fans are. He pointed to, not just himself but Magic, Jordan, Bird as proving it...staying in one franchise and winning titles there. It then is indisputable: you were the chief and you got them to the trophy. NOw it's Wade's team really..But the other argument which surely came from Riley is: 'you guys are 25. This is a dynasty. LIke the Russell Celtics, you'll have ten years of greatness, several titles.'

My own feeling was with Reggie. The Cavs were the best season team for two straight years, and the year before that played in the Finals. He can't really say, 'I was on a mediocre team and now finally I have to take the chance to be on a winner.' I always thought the coach was the crucial problem for the Cavs. Maybe Scott would turn it up that one notch. Damon Jones said (he was calling from Akron) that there were people burning Lebron's jersey on the street, lots of anger.

The other sort of nauseating feeling is that those three guys colluded for the past year ( or since the Olympics?) and have seriously warped the parity situation in the NBA. THe same way I felt initially when Garnett & Allen went to Boston. UNFAIR! How can teams that are gradually growing their talent and progressing have a chance? Like Oklahoma....

Also, the program was disgusting. Lebron had promised to say the word within the first ten or 15 minutes. Nope. That ridiculous interview with Gray, siting on chairs surrounded by statues of children? Sheesh.

Oh well, of course their games will be like magnets, just like the Celtics Three when their first season started.

Lee trade is OK maybe I loved Azubuike & Turiaf though, and Randolph is fun, and might just be another one of those guys who soars once he gets away. I'd say the Knicks will be happy with that threesome.

And they'll thank the fates they got out of the miasma of Warriorland and into the Garden.

Gudmundsson Challah

Here's another thing about this whole "We made friends and weren't we so great in the Olympics thing"...they actually had a couple teammates you might've heard of...Kobe Bryant? Carmelo Anthony? Chris Paul? And still beat Spain in the championship match by only 9 points. And Kobe and Carmelo mostly led them in scoring. Things might be a little less fun with Rasho Nestorovic holding down the post and Mario Chalmers dishing.

I'm actually not intrigued at all, mostly queasy and a little saddened. Lebron especially has just blown my mind. He's really just not the person we thought he was, and we'll live with that. But it's still a bit shocking. Maybe the pressure of being Lebron just got to be too much. To be so young and already going the Karl Malone route of getting on someone else's title train. Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, and the whole basketball world is different than the way I think, but Miami will always be Wade's team. Period. No matter how amazing Lebron is, no matter how much he dominates the ball, as long as Wade is still walking Lebron and Bosh are joining HIM. I feel like I should be psyched that Lebron and Bosh don't care about other stuff, just want to play with friends, and yet I'm not.

People keep comparing them to Boston and the big three and there are some really big differences. KG, Allen and Pierce were all many years older than this trio and ready to concede to others for a title. In fact, their legacy of title is spread equally, and that's what Lebron will face. Pierce slightly more, and why is that? Because he stayed loyal! And here's the other thing...they never really were the Big Three. Rajon Rondo from the very beginning was the linchpin there that made it work. And Kendrick.

My last thought is yes, Lebron is used to crushing teams in the 4th quarter, but that other guy don't mind doing it either. Remember game 3, 2006? Down 0-2? Wade scored 42 points, had 15 points in the fourth quarter over a 22-7 run when Miami erased a 13 point deficit. Lebron's had some great fourth quarters, but when it comes down to it, who do you want in that moment? Can Lebron let Wade do that? Can Wade let Lebron after carrying his team like that in the bitterest foxhole there is in basketball?

I guess it'll be fun to root for every team on the planet against them. That part I like.

As for the Warriors, whatevs...Yes, David Lee will be an improvement, but another colossal contract for a guy who puts up fairly empty stats is nothing new. Lee and Curry will play very nicely together on offense, and they'll give up 6000 points every game. How is Lee all that different than Maggette, who averaged 20 points and 6 rebounds when starting? 5 rebounds? That's what we got for $80 million? I hope it goes great, but ain't holding my breath.

Two more things seen...Hadn't thought about this, but a good quote from an ESPN writer:

"Can you imagine what Kobe was thinking as he watched Thursday evening's announcement? He must have been seething. He's probably already counting the months, weeks and days until the Lakers play the Heat during the regular season. Knowing how Bryant uses such things as motivation, he's almost surely hoping the Heat win the Eastern Conference and face the Lakers in the Finals."

And Cleveland folks (including an anger-crazed owner) are suddenly remembering that Lebron already quit on them in the playoffs, and filling the press with it. Suddenly the quitting thing becomes a mark, a talisman Lebron now carries around.

Ouch.

LDJ5000

you do have to wonder if lebron threw that series a little bit, so he

could set this up. would have been really weird to leave a

championship team. could he be that sinister? to throw a potential

championship? i don't know. honestly i don't understand him anymore as

a person, i think he's off his rocker a little. mixed signals: he has

always seemed to absolutely love the limelight as the king of

basketball, from high school days, basked in the spotlight and the

pressure and expectations, exerted himself as the unquestioned leader

of an nba franchise at the age of 18 onward. always, always took the

full burden of performing for his team when they needed him, carried

them on his back so many times. brought them to the podium for each

mvp. but something changed in the playoffs this year. i'm tired of

speculating as to the reason, the elbow, the pressure, the celtics, i

really just don't know, no one does.

we also all assumed that his ambitions were enormous, not just rings

but mvps, record breaking stats, triple double average, and he had the

potential, the only player really, to be someday considered as good as

michael, maybe even better. no one else has that potential, period.

now is this guy i've been watching really throwing all that away,

everything but the rings? he'll never win another mvp. he'll never be

compared to jordan.

his ego is still big enough to have his own one hour special, but in

this special he announces that he's becoming half of a two man show.

bizarre...

now does that all mean i'm gonna root against them? no, i'm not

capable of that. it still comes down to actual basketball, and i love

love love the games of those two players, and the kind of people they

are on the court. if it was kobe and howard and carmelo joining forces

it would be different, i don't really like their games or their on

court personalities. i've definitely lost respect for lebron, and a

little for wade too, who turned down being close to his kids in

chicago, and probably winning more rings on a real team. but during a

game it's still wade and lebron, my god. we always fantasized about

the blazers getting jordan and drexler.

so i'm irritated, and confused, but also hella curious and excited to

finally see lebron operate in a different system.

LDJ5000

We part ways here my friend. a civil war amongst brothers is born. I mostly root for teams or get interested in stories, not necessarily supreme talent awesomely displayed. And in the case of something like this, like the Lakers or Celtics or Yankees (whatever way you turn this, it's the same. Who can say that Magic Johnson didn't have great game? Or Derek Jeter?), you have to hate them on principle. How could I possible root for the Miami (god, it's even in dreadful Florida) Heat against the Bulls or Orlando or Thunder? "Yay! You easily crushed the team you were supposed to! Such drama!"

No, I curse the name of Miami Heat for all eternity. Today they have joined the ranks of Yankee/Lakers/Celtics/Cowboys evil, and all of my mojo and superstitions and passionate emailing will be set against them forever more.

Eau Shur

Vanity Fair had a pretty good piece by the guy who wrote a book about Lebron:

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2010/07/lebrons-decision-to-avoid-the-path-of-greatness.html

LDJ5000

I like the stuff about how ridiculous and lame the decision hour and

the media was, but the guy knows nothing about basketball, appears to

not have watched any. He certainly didn't see 2007 if he things lebron

has never been a leader. A very narrow view of greatness as having to

be just like mike and Kobe in temperament.

Gudmundsson Challah

I have to say, I agree with LDJ5000 about this article...there's something in it that doesn't smell right, like maybe he was promised an exclusive interview with Lebron and then he changed his mind or something? The violence of his attacks on the media guys and the overall venom is a little red flag raising. I think the leadership thing is debatable, certainly Lebron carried a less-than adequate team many times in herculean fashion, but I don't know enough about what happens behind the scenes with him to know about leadership. It would really help to see him with a different coach, as so often his teammates seemed a little unsure what to do on the court. You can go back and forth forever about what leadership looks like. But what really rankled here to me were his assumptions about how moving around and having a teenage mom made him a people-pleasing dick. He seems to have gotten lost in writing Lebron's book, feels like he's inside him somewhere and has the right to make a comment like that. As if Lebron is part of his fiction, and he's still writing it.

For all of my sports anger at this superstar monolith being built and the way Lebron went about it, on a personal level it's hard to blame the guy. I mean, I grew up in Portland and bolted the first chance I got. Should I have stayed loyal and worked on my micro-brew beer gut? Should LDJ have stayed in that jobless morass when UC Berkeley came calling? As you said, dad, he's leaving a bleak midwest city in the heart of a major recession for a place full of sun and fun and lots of money. And he's in his 20s! And he gets to play with his best friends! Jeez, who wouldn't dream of that? Given the choice of staying in Portland and maybe getting a popcorn buttering championship or coming to SF to hang with SK and LDJ and the rest of my buddies, I'd take the move every time. Maybe part of everyone's anger at him is that in these hard economic times he CAN do what he did, and many can't. And the gross part is that he's rubbing people's noses in it a little. But as far as blowing town for friends, fun, money and sun? %99 of Americans would make the same choice.

Doesn't mean on a sports level, I am not still obligated to hate that team, and I will. I remember when Barkley came to Houston, and even then I was souring on that team despite living and dying with them the year before. I just don't have it in me to root for expensive assemblies like that. I will always want the souped up jalopy to win, but it doesn't mean that I believe that everyone who drives a nice car is necessarily an asshole.

Eau Shur

Yeah to all that about the guy's psychology 'insights'....

And add in this mitigating point in his favor: maybe a subtext of what made Gilbert and a lot of people angry was the idea that the slaves were running the show? It took free-agency (itself a victory starting with Spencer Haywood) to the next level. Instead of waiting for an offer or being traded, you say, 'here's who I want to team up with. Get outta the way.'

Another point against the Clevelanders: Who the fuck put up that 100 foot sign and did all that "we are witnesses" crap anyhow? Lebron may have acceded, and I really wish he had said, "Hey, that's too much, you know? Let's drop all this "king" shit and the giant statuary, and let me play and entertain everybody." I loved Bill Walton for doing something like that to Brent Musberger right on prime-time TV. Musberger used the media-fashioned "Mountain Man" nickname on Walton, who looked at him gravely and said "I'm not 'mountain man" and I don't like being called that and you can just quit right now." Whoosh. Musberger ate his tie. Walton also shot down the press when he noticed articles implying he was the White Hope, against Jabbar or any of the other black centers. He made a point of saying "There is no such thing, and I think it's racially suspect to talk that way, and also Kareem is the best."

Just sayin. It is possible to deflect or curb the hype. But, given that LeBron didn't, it really isn't his fault that those idiots got so carried away. In fact, I feel that way about all the fans back there. Hell with it. When Baron Davis left, OK, I think he's wrong, tough. I know these guys are mostly egomaniacs, who cares ultimately? Disappointing, okay, but jesus, learn a lesson once a while huh? There are no all-pleasing hero star avatar ballplayers who will turn the destiny of a region into eden. Sheesh. It's just weird.

BUT It is true that Duncan, Bird, Magic, Jordan, Isaiah, Hakeem, Dr J, Kobe etc, all stayed in a franchise and won rings after a struggle, and it does give them gravity when you compare legacies.

However. Kareem, Moses, & Shaq for example, quit their teams, leaving many people disappointed, and won titles elsewhere...and no one says they were quitters and spoiled and less important historically.

I'm ready to just observe the Heat for a few years, see whether they achieve dynasty....

But there are teams I really care about, like the Warriors, and it will be mean much more to me if they can get back to the playoffs with new owners.

Gudmundsson Challah

Well, a couple things even about the legendary folks who stayed where they were...Magic was drafted onto a team that already had Kareem, Wilkes, Cooper and Norm Nixon and won a championship in his first year. Duncan was drafted onto former MVP David Robinson's team and won it all his rookie year too. Kobe was drafted onto Shaq's team and won 3 titles 3 years later. Bird had Parish and Mchale by his 3rd year and won a title. Dr. J sorta counts, though he actually won 3 titles in the ABA. Hakeem joined Ralph Sampson and was in the finals in his second year (though didn't win for 9 more years). The only real pure examples of what you're talking about are Isaiah and Jordan, guys who slogged it out until the time was right.

So, Lebron had a chance to join that VERY rarified air (just two guys in modern history, 3 if you count Hakeem) and declined. Like LDJ says, he was probably the only guy that seemed capable of repeating that feat, and now he's not going to. It's sad to let go of getting to see history made, but it's a less common history than people seem to think. I especially don't know why Kobe gets so much credit that way. The guy got a 3 peat before he could even drink legally on the back of Shaq.

I just realized we're having a backlash to the backlash.